big red oil filter change

[OFRC boy]

What was Honda thinking? The book says remove right seat, plastic under the seat and center plastic? What for? you can't even see the filter from the top. The access hole in the bottom lets you see it and loosen it but not big enough to remove with out doing it one piece at a time, the bolt then cover then the spring and washer fly out and are fun trying to find on the belly pan in the used oil. And to reinstall it is the same. If the access hole was big enough to stick the filter thru with the bolt in it it would be very easy. What a horrible design. I think I will enlarge the hole before my next oil change. I do love my big Red but how Honda came up with this is beyond me.

[robdog]

I understand that engine is out of a foreman with a redesigned head for clearance. My oil change interval light is on so i'm there . Do you know what oil honda calls for on this thing because i guess it runs the transmission also.

[OFRC boy]

Pro Honda GN4 4 stroke Motor Oil. I went with 10W-40

[robdog]

How much does it take? My dealer has no info. Thanks Rob

[OFRC boy]

Owners Manual says 3.1 quarts. I bought oil in gallon jugs.

[olivecrossbones]

Am coming up on my first oil change. Have service manual as well as the operators manual that comes with the vehicle. As mentioned at the beginning of this thread, I can't believe what I am reading is necessary to change the filter!!!Has any one come up with any other method, procedure or tips that doesn't involve stripping down the machine, seats, etc.?

[sfrankland]

I am coming up to my second anytime now and can hardly wait. I think I may enlarge the hole on the bottom as well. Will have a look at it this weekend when I get home.

[Cenflrider]

After reading this and changing the oil in my ZTR mower this week I wonder if we could get a flexible hose to change the oil in BR ?

Something like this (example only, this will not fit) Oil Drain Hose And Fitting Kit

Thoughts?

[Dr_Al]

I remember the dealer saying not to use an oil saying "energy conserving" because of the friction modifiers. Had something to do with the transmission.

[OFRC boy]

Originally Posted by Cenflrider

After reading this and changing the oil in my ZTR mower this week I wonder if we could get a flexible hose to change the oil in BR ?

Something like this (example only, this will not fit) Oil Drain Hose And Fitting Kit

Thoughts?

The problem is not the Oil it is the Oil Filter. I tried like the instructions said and after removing all the things you could not even see the oil filter, so I changed it from the bottom thru access hole. I agree with sfrankland the hole is so to small for a mans hand and needs to be big enough to get your hand thru with the filter. I will be enlarging mine also as I am sure I will not be able to have my wife change the filter for me. LOL

[olivecrossbones]

Are you saying then that removing the seat etc. was not or should not be necessary? I think I understand what you are are saying about not being able to get your hand in from underneath. Is it a problem in both removal and installation of the new filter? Should I just skip the seat removal part of the service manual instructions? What will be exposed if you do cut an opening in the maintenance cover?
Thanks for you thoughts...

[Cenflrider]

Dr. AL, In my humble opinion the oil is the most important part of the equation. Since Honda decided to use the engine oil as the trans oil also it's very inportant that the correct oil is used (and filter in my opinon). Changing the oil is a journey in itself. I "worked" on cars for a number of years so the one handed oil filter change does suck however I jack BR up and do it from the underside not removing the right side lower seat cushion. Until someone makes a full belly skid I think I will leave my pan intact.

[OFRC boy]

Originally Posted by olivecrossbones

Are you saying then that removing the seat etc. was not or should not be necessary? I think I understand what you are are saying about not being able to get your hand in from underneath. Is it a problem in both removal and installation of the new filter? Should I just skip the seat removal part of the service manual instructions? What will be exposed if you do cut an opening in the maintenance cover?
Thanks for you thoughts...

olivecrossbones, I tried it the way the book says and did not have any sucess, so I jacked it up and did it from the bottom. It wasn't to bad removing the filter but I had a problem with the install of the new filter and had to put in filter then cover then bolt and hope the pieces don't fall out before the bolt goes in. I am also coming up on my second change soon and will look for a better way but I am sure it won't be from the top as I could not even see the filter after removing everything from the top. Why doesn't Honda just use a spin on filter?

[Dr_Al]

As the owner of larger equipment I know that different types of hydraulic oils are made because some makes use it in the transmission and torque converter. Each type has different properties depending on pressures the oil would see and the type of lubricating it's expected to do. I remember Saturn used automatic tranny fluid in it's sticks.

All of my Hondas had wet cluch plates. The biggest worry was that the oil break down the clutch plates. The gears were just that, simple gears and ball bearings. There's nothing special about the engine on them (other than the 2 strokes) so almost any oil in the correct range would do.

The BR with it's automatic is a different beast. It must use oil pressure to shift and in the torque converter. To drain a car's TC you just drain the tranny, fill it back up, a little over, unplug one of the trans lines returning from the radiator then start the engine while someone watches the stream of oil coming out of the hose. Once it looks clean you stop the engine. You can't really do that since the oil is also for the engine.

I'm sure Honda's oil may not be the best. Another oil could really help with the shifting and the vibrations but unless you're sure that the two oils are compatible I would take the time to changing several times to flush out the old oil.

I'm in the middle of building a garage and will be putting in a 2 post lift so I don't think I'll have too much of a problem changing the oil.

[ccobra8]

I used Ams oil for motorcycles in mine. I did not flush it just changed it and have had no problems yet. It is almost to the second oil change. The friction inhibiters some one metioned in energy saving oils will impregnate the clutch plates and make them slip. I was working on motorcycles when these oils came out and we put a lot of clutches in a lot of bikes until we figured out what was causing the slipping. Just make sure the oil is for a wet clutch and it will work fine!

[olivecrossbones]

As I had mentioned earlier, I took my BR to the Honda dealer for it's first oil change and to have it serviced at 100 miles. Everything checked out fine and they did show me how they change the oil filter. In that regard, I gots' do good news and I gots' da bad news. The good news is the filter is clearly visible from the top but the bad news is that it does require removal of the passenger seat, console cover around the parking brake and of course the maintenence cover underneath. Nothing was removed from the floorboards as is mentioned in the operators manual. It is a tight fit for the hand, especially my meat hooks, but is do-able. They switched me over from regular to synthetic oil and did not require any special draining other than the normal removal of oil drain plug. They are sending in comments to Honda requesting design change in the future in order to facilitate an easier filter change, possibly opening a hole on the upright seat panel located under the passenger seat and perpendicular to the floor. I believe the service manual is easier to follow on this than is the operators manual, but either way it requires something like 22 steps.
I predict some personal stress coming when I perform oil change #2

[Cenflrider]

Hit the chore first thing in the morning with the sun rising and a fresh cup of coffee and when your done go for a ride. Makes the effort worthwhile.

Working on cars, at times I wonder what goes thru the designers mind, certainly not the service tech. Seems this thought process is making its way to the MUV/UTV arena, sad.

Thanks for the follow up and the information. Nice to know the service department has the ability to provide feedback to the supplier. Enjoy the ride

[olivecrossbones]

Under my careful supervision and watchful eye, my Subaru master mechanic son completed my first at home oil & filter change. My other son was there to contribute helpful hints, tips and criticisms from his lounge chair. I laid out before them an array of literature including; the service manual, the owners manual and printed copies of every pertinent thread youse' guys had provided in the forum.
While I found your information extremely helpful and very much appreciated, both Boys said, "Hey Dad, we are not capping off the BP well here!" I retreated to my assigned supervisory seat and continued to supply sockets, wrenches and rags as needed. We removed the passenger seat and seat frame and plastic panel covering underneath the seat with little or no difficulty. I remember the comments of others that the panel screws were difficult to remove (possibly being impact driven) and gathered up an armada of tools to help insure that we didn't round out any of the heads. In the time it took me to gather the tools, my son had removed all of the screws with a simple phillips screwdriver and they came out effortlessly. We then used a floor jack to lift the machine on the passenger side and my son then removed the plastic plate covering the drain plug with no difficulty. At this point my other son suggested a beer break.
My master mechanic then removed the cover and filter while underneath. Before it was completely removed, he tried finishing it from up above and concluded that removal was much easier from up above than from down below. Removal was easy and installation of new filter went along just as smoothly. I was able to get my arm and hand in to do so much more easily than I expected. I was prepared for the oil filler neck overflow problem several of you had mentioned and my son said that was typical for many of the Japanese car makers. He said that all of the Subaru and Hyundia mechanics take an extra oil fill cap and cut a hole in it and seal a funnel into the hole and just remove one cap and replace it with the modified cap when it comes oil change time. I will be doing this as well. Total oil change time excluding the adult beverage breaks and comforting my Granddaughter who got her foot run over by The Bone Floor Creeper which was being used as a tobaggon ride down the driveway by my Grandson, was 30 minutes. What I thought surely would be a trip to the emergency room for a broken leg or ankle, fortunatley turned out only to be a scraped leg and tears wiped away with more of Grandma's birthday cake. There was a brief moment of panic when the spring inside the filter assembly fell into an unknown crevice underneath the machine but three of us searching frantically with magnets found it.
I want to thank everyone in the forum for their helpful tips in completing this process.
It is without a doubt an engineers design without a mechanics input...
I was then going to take pictures of the rear bumper we had just installed as well as some of the other things I had added and mentioned in the forum such as mirrors and front receiver mount plate but sons and grandchildren took BR out for a ride and apparently toured the Mojave desert as it came back so dusty and filthy as did they, that it and they were unrecognizable except for the whites of their eyes. As soon as I get BR cleaned and detailed again, I will make pictures available in the forum. I think the moral of the story of the weekend covering the oil change, winshield reinstallation and rear bumper addition is to keep plenty of birthday cake on hand!

[sfrankland]

Originally Posted by olivecrossbones

As soon as I get BR cleaned and detailed again, I will make pictures available in the forum.

Cleaned and detailed? Can you also take some pictures of this process as well. We normally drive forward and then backward into a body of water and call her done. And maybe a a spray of the garden hose if it is really dirty.

[olivecrossbones]

Thanks for the tip but I think I will stay with my 16 step, 8 chemicals, power washer, detailing process after each trail ride. You never can tell when you might break out of the woods and find yourself in the middle of a parade!!!
(My wife thinks I am wacko as well...)