Busted By GPS

I don't know if any of you are aware, but GPS can possibly be used against you... at least in VA. I came across this info in ThunderRoads mag last month. The article was written by Richmond VA motorcycle lawyer Tom McGrath. He cited a case in VA where a m/c'r hits a NatParkSvc vehicle. When it was realize that the bike had GPS, a warrant was issued to seize and download the GPS info. It was found that the m/c'r was speeding and therefore the cause of the accident. The case is still in court on appeals.

Just thought ya'll like to know if you were unaware.... at leat in VA.

[fl-929]

Makes sense

So is that just to prove (again) how dangerous every bike/ biker is, or do they do that with cars/ trucks in accidents also that use GPS? Would be interesting to know...would seem they are out to prove something if they don't. That's just my thoughts....
Maybe I'm on

Originally Posted by saxman

So is that just to prove (again) how dangerous every bike/ biker is, or do they do that with cars/ trucks in accidents also that use GPS? Would be interesting to know...would seem they are out to prove something if they don't. That's just my thoughts....
Maybe I'm on

Or at least download the little blackboxes that are in cars. Hmmm, a must for the next accident.

Originally Posted by Mojave954

Or at least download the little blackboxes that are in cars. Hmmm, a must for the next accident.

Last I read: it was illegal for them to download the blackbox information on a car for use against you.

If you are stupid enough to use a GPS while speeding, you deserve what you get. Road signs work very well, so do printed maps.

Originally Posted by nedro

If you are stupid enough to use a GPS while speeding, you deserve what you get. Road signs work very well, so do printed maps.

I don't think that's what he meant? I suspect you're thinking about Satnav GPS as opposed to GPS vehicle trackers which keep a log of your movements in time and speed etc. I've such a device on my works vehicle, so yes they'd know the speed I was going just before the collision
Satnav has no such record, none that I've heard of anyway

[jhonda41]

Originally Posted by MR_TiGGer

I don't think that's what he meant? I suspect you're thinking about Satnav GPS as opposed to GPS vehicle trackers which keep a log of your movements in time and speed etc. I've such a device on my works vehicle, so yes they'd know the speed I was going just before the collision
Satnav has no such record, none that I've heard of anyway

If by satnav you mean a Garmin GPS type device then you're wrong... most devices I know of can actually plot your entire course and give you a reading of your speed and heading at each point. The garmin quest that I use, records the highest speed until it is reset.

I am happy to report that there is no physical evidence of me going any faster than 54 mph

I heard a rumor that the police can acquire your ezpass information to measure the time interval between tolls .... revealing your avg speed between tolls.

-jh
Proud supporter of always stopping for gas on long turnpike runs.

Originally Posted by jhonda41

If by satnav you mean a Garmin GPS type device then you're wrong... most devices I know of can actually plot your entire course and give you a reading of your speed and heading at each point. The garmin quest that I use, records the highest speed until it is reset.

Just so I'm clear, after a journey you could recall the entire log from that journey showing the actual speed at all times through it?
For example: Kept to the speed limit the entire time but on a long stretch shot up to 120mph for 90 seconds .... that kind of thing, just like a GPS Vehicle tracking system.
Or just a simulation if you were to do the same journey a second time?

I'm not disputing what you've said, just want to be clear as keeping a log on a satnav that's strictly a receiver makes no sense to me

My Tomtom can show a demo of the entire journey showing the 'Anticipated' speed and course, how else can it work out your ETA?

My Quest2 can keep a breadcrum trail of your ride. It is interesting to see elevation changes and such but anyone that could not beat the record in court should be disbarred. EVERY track I have recorded had to be filtered and cleaned up of flyer points that were obviously wrong. A decent lawyer should be able to show the jury the whole thing and add reasonable doubt. Also logging is off by default.

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

My Quest2 can keep a breadcrum trail of your ride. It is interesting to see elevation changes and such but anyone that could not beat the record in court should be disbarred. EVERY track I have recorded had to be filtered and cleaned up of flyer points that were obviously wrong. A decent lawyer should be able to show the jury the whole thing and add reasonable doubt. Also logging is off by default.

They can get the same data if you have a modern cell phone, and it was on during your speeding. What it boils down to is, for most people, a bullshit issue about expectations of privacy, and the reasonableness of the state taking your gps data under a given set of circumstances, as a search. I think for mere allegations of speeding, it probably would not be admitted; but for criminal and civil liability for an accident caused by an alleged speeder where speeding was a factor for the liability, then sure, I can see it.

The data from some (like my current unit, a garmin nuvi 350) posts such a clear MAX SPEED value, that even the late Johnny Cochran would have difficulty discounting it in court. From an evidentiary standpoint, the data and the technology used to record and aquire it must have reached a certain level of common use (for criminal use) and reliability (for all evidentiary use) to be admitted in court.


On a nitpicky, lawyerly note,

I would try to challenge the Constitutionality of any statute that assigns blame (in a strict liability sense) merely for speeding, as mere speed is not always the cause of a given accident (and cops get to speed to accidents, and all that whenever they need to). (Although admittedly, most state constitutions have upheld the constitutionality of these kinds of statutes).

Hmmmm the old favorite, if my Daughter was killed by some piece of scum doing 120mph then I'd really want Jack Bauer to .... extract the truth, but failing that then yea I'd expect tracking data to be used in a 'Criminal' case.

Ultimately when you drive/ride like a arsehole outside of your skills then be a man, accept the consequences if you cause harm to others, which is what this posting is all about.
The catch will come when insurance companies use the exact same data to make your policy invalid when it all goes wrong "You should have read the small print"

Originally Posted by analogbear

They can get the same data if you have a modern cell phone, and it was on during your speeding. What it boils down to is, for most people, a bullshit issue about expectations of privacy, and the reasonableness of the state taking your gps data under a given set of circumstances, as a search. I think for mere allegations of speeding, it probably would not be admitted; but for criminal and civil liability for an accident caused by an alleged speeder where speeding was a factor for the liability, then sure, I can see it.

The data from some (like my current unit, a garmin nuvi 350) posts such a clear MAX SPEED value, that even the late Johnny Cochran would have difficulty discounting it in court. From an evidentiary standpoint, the data and the technology used to record and aquire it must have reached a certain level of common use (for criminal use) and reliability (for all evidentiary use) to be admitted in court.


On a nitpicky, lawyerly note,

I would try to challenge the Constitutionality of any statute that assigns blame (in a strict liability sense) merely for speeding, as mere speed is not always the cause of a given accident (and cops get to speed to accidents, and all that whenever they need to). (Although admittedly, most state constitutions have upheld the constitutionality of these kinds of statutes).

My point with the flyers is that maximum speed is highly suspect as it could be the result of a single flyer and very distorted. Also you can change what is displayed on the Quest2

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

My point with the flyers is that maximum speed is highly suspect as it could be the result of a single flyer and very distorted. Also you can change what is displayed on the Quest2

No worries, not picking a fight. If your gps is questionable, they might just use your phone. Or, easy-pass info...

Originally Posted by jhonda41

I heard a rumor that the police can acquire your ezpass information to measure the time interval between tolls .... revealing your avg speed between tolls.

I was told that this was true on the PA Pike. Can any PA'rs out there comfirm or deny this info????

Originally Posted by A.F.T.C.T.T.G.

I was told that this was true on the PA Pike. Can any PA'rs out there comfirm or deny this info????

Any place with ez-pass or its equivalent.